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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not sure if this has been covered in any other thread but I'm curious about a two things...
1) So we all know this year we have a bag limit of one deer throughout all seasons (exceptions 17A, 25B, 26, 36, 34A)...how was this decided? Was there a survey (ie: aerial or other scientific method) conducted by the province to determine the "decline" or "overabundance" (ie: Whiteshell) of the Manitoba deer herd or was this decision all based on the hunter return questionnaire, observations of a hard winter(s), or heresay?
2) Seems alot of lost revenew for the province with the issue of the one license/tag system. Especially with the license remaining relatively the same as last year, I thought foresure with one license/tag system the price of a license would have been substantially more to make up for the lost revenew. Where does the money from hunting licenses go or go towards and what does this mean for our resources, resource department, and management with the lost revenew?

Just to put it into perspective for one hunter (and I'm sure some of you have thought about this already)...If one man/woman hunted all three seasons last year he/she would have spent $108.00 on licenses and maybe or maybe not harvested a deer throughout each season. If a second tag was available he/she would probably pick one up ($21.00), maybe or maybe not always filling it. This year he/she'll spend $36.00 compared to a possible $129.00. That's a possible 93 bones not going into the governments coffers.
Thoughts?
 

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Aerial surveys, and ground surveys. Not everyone will hunt 3 seasons, and with the lack of deer out there, it'll likely be a limited success hunt this year, depending on your zone. If you know zone 26, you know its tough hunting. So success there is not so guarenteed, even with the 2 and 3rd tag there. Revenue?? Lol, I'm sure the dept has lots of our money!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Aerial and ground surveys? When, by whom and with what money? I would like to see those results...
I agree...probably 99% don't hunt all three seasons, but I would guess that a vast majority who hunt archery and/or muzzle, with no success...would hunt rifle even just for a day or a weekend...you still need the license...so there is a loss of $. And I have hunted 26 (not for years now), and you're right...it's tough hunting...no deer and too many hunters.
 

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There are lots of factors involved in setting bag limits... You know the survey's you used to get in the mail that are now in the guide??? They help determine what quota's are set too...
 

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johnny64 said:
Aerial surveys, and ground surveys. Not everyone will hunt 3 seasons, and with the lack of deer out there, it'll likely be a limited success hunt this year, depending on your zone. If you know zone 26, you know its tough hunting. So success there is not so guarenteed, even with the 2 and 3rd tag there. Revenue?? Lol, I'm sure the dept has lots of our money!
Tough hunting doesn't even begin to describe 26!!! lol I'll be doing my best to try and find an old buck up here though!!!
 

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I've hunted 26 for about 10 years now. I've always got a Buck(i try not to shoot anything under 3yrs old). Last year being the worst year since i started hunting the area for seeing any activity (by myself or on my 6 cameras). I do not see how they can still have a 5 tag system for it. This year i will not be hunting the area, due to the amount of hunters that will flock there, and realize how much work is involved in hunting the area.
 

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They might "survey" and regulate us all they want (and by the looks of it, it's only us whom they can control and regulate) but how do they know about what the natives and metis kill, to conduct any effective game management ?...it's all hogwash !
 

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brasso said:
They might "survey" and regulate us all they want (and by the looks of it, it's only us whom they can control and regulate) but how do they know about what the natives and metis kill, to conduct any effective game management ?...it's all hogwash !

To accomplished change you must political will and political will is the end result of public demand!

Simply put "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There is no "political will" to regulate or abolish metis and first nation resource use, there never will be, so "public demand" is nil and void. Aboriginal and metis resource use/harvest is federal government territory and no political party will or would ever take this issue on, unless they were planning on political suicide. You can squeak all you want. All of these threads on management end up on this note...metis and first nation harvest...it's been happening long before any of us were born and will continue long after we are dead and gone, I don't agree with the current situation and I'm not saying it's right; but it is a fact of life...such as water is wet and the sky is blue. You can b*tch all you want, it ain't going to change.

I wanted to know how our bag limits are determined...hunter questionnaire returns or hard science? And if it is a combination of both, that's cool, but someone point me to the results of these aerial and ground surveys (ie: a report). Everyone knows how our current federal government feels about the scientific process, and our provincial resource departments run on bare bones operating budget.
 

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Whiskeyjack said:
There is no "political will" to regulate or abolish metis and first nation resource use, there never will be, so "public demand" is nil and void. Aboriginal and metis resource use/harvest is federal government territory and no political party will or would ever take this issue on, unless they were planning on political suicide. You can squeak all you want. All of these threads on management end up on this note...metis and first nation harvest...it's been happening long before any of us were born and will continue long after we are dead and gone, I don't agree with the current situation and I'm not saying it's right; but it is a fact of life...such as water is wet and the sky is blue. You can b*tch all you want, it ain't going to change.

I wanted to know how our bag limits are determined...hunter questionnaire returns or hard science? And if it is a combination of both, that's cool, but someone point me to the results of these aerial and ground surveys (ie: a report). Everyone knows how our current federal government feels about the scientific process, and our provincial resource departments run on bare bones operating budget.
Well if you're so well informed you should have all the answers, but " these aerial and ground surveys" contradicts that assumption since the "aerial" fly-overs are not happening, they do one in 10 years if they are lucky and even then, it's not always effective to spot game, and multiple fly-overs are not happening for lack of funds...so they can't really tell much with any accuracy. CO's told me this.
And no, the metis weren't hunting in "modern days" like they are hunting now, not to mention the weaponry being used now vs the past (haven't seen a native with bow and arrow in the bush ever) so this era is basically uncharted territory for everybody. In 10 years maybe nothing will be left to hunt....who is to predict.
One thing for sure though, big game hunting in Manitoba (moose, elk, and now deer) it has deteriorated a lot and it's getting worse.
 

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I asked conservation the question of how the decision of one deer limit came about also, if there was any research done. I was told that there was no aerial research due to the lack of snow. The deer are not visable with no snow so a somewhat accurate count could not be done.

I was told that road side checks, hunter surveys, the previous years winter and internet research ( eg. hunting forums ) were used to help determine the so called decline in deer population.

So, I believe ( in my opinion ) the information was not accurate enough to make such a decision. I can tell you deer were harder to spot last year if you stayed out of the bush or on the road. This I know from local road hunters who were very quick to tell everyone else, and post in the forums that the deer population in my area was down from previous years.

Most of the rut was in the bush last year in area 25 where I hunt. I saw 12 different bucks along with multiple does and calves in the bush covered square mile I hunt alone, more than I have seen in previous years.

It just proves to me that hunting and fishing forums in Manitoba have a lot of influence with what current decisions are made by the people with the power.

Again this is just my opinion of what happened in the small general area that I hunt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks Brasso and Firekid for the answer to my original question. No field data gathered (surveys etc.) = Armchair Biology (hunter questionnaires and internet searches) = a one deer bag limit.
 

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I agree with your statement. A knee jerk reaction to a lot of hot air from deer " cruisers ". No hard evidence to support a big decision like this. If there was hard evidence, like you, I would love to read it. Show me the numbers.

Anyway, whats done is done, just hope decisions can be made in the future so I can eat real natural meat again over the winter not chemical infested crap that is undigestible store bought Beef. Yuck.

Sorry all just venting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well said Firekid...knee jerk reaction with no data to support it.

I'm fine with a management strategie (ie: bag limit)[glow=red:1h1jbyms]IF[/glow:1h1jbyms]there is evidence (ie: data) to support the decline or overabundance of a deer population (that's basic management principles), but if it's based on nothing but the hunter questionaires and heresay, then it's a little tougher to swallow.

I hunt 25 as well, and saw no sign of a decimated deer population last year. To me, it seemed the same as all the other years I've hunted there.
 

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There are areas where the deer are still doing well,you are lucky to be in one of those areas, but as a whole the population is down. I didn't venture to the interlake last year, but spent a lot of time in the south east and south central. No where near the numbers from previous years and this aint no road hunter. Did i still have good hunting last year? YES. Lots of bucks called in and even shot one. But seeing the 20 - 30 deer a day like a few years ago, changed to 0 - 6 deer on any given day in the woods.

Friends who hunt the south west even had a hard time filling tags pushing bush. The one thing they did mention were the numbers of yotes coming out of the bluffs on drives.

I didn't see any wolves and only a couple of yotes where i hunted, but they were around as evidence was abundant in dropping and tracks.

So Manitoba Conservation may not have been able to do their aerial survey's, but from the feed back they received from the field and the mail in and on line surveys was not good. I rather have them error on the side of caution than allow another year of a free for all. The whitetails will rebound all around and we will all enjoy full freezers again in the coming years.
 
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